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Author Topic: Show us your P-30's  (Read 61786 times)
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Maxout
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« Reply #175 on: July 06, 2009, 09:49:27 PM »

Bob, how do you know you've found the silver bullet without experimenting? I for one like to do a little experimenting first and see what will give the best performance. This is not tedious, and a few flights here and there with each setup will reveal a lot. I've found that 6 strands flat out does not work for me. 4 strands does, because it produces a model that will remain at least 20ft up even when launched into moderate sink. That's good enough for it to wander out and find a thermal, as my model has done many times. No, it doesn't work every time, but I don't launch into sink every time, either. As for hitting the bull's eye, my definition of the bull's eye is a model that can do at least 1.5x the max with no lift present because that's the level of performance needed to max consistently. I don't think either of us has such a thing yet for P-30, so more experimenting is in order.

Dan, didn't realize that's the setup Don is using. Will have to try that, but I still don't see how he gets a 2 minute motor run from it.

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danberry
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« Reply #176 on: July 06, 2009, 09:57:54 PM »

6 strands 3/32 rubber is a LONG p30 motor. Not a lot of torque but a LOT of turns. Read the PoleCat construction article.
That 20 foot high plane will break when the air at Pensacola slams it to the ground.
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« Reply #177 on: July 07, 2009, 11:02:11 AM »

Josh:

The "silver bullet" with a P-30 (for ME) is when I get consistent flights over 2 minutes IN GOOD AIR. Note, in a previous post where I changed props on my Pearce P-30. It went from a so-so model to a consistant maxer.

On a scale model, the bullet (for ME) is one minute on twins and low wingers and two minutes on high wingers. The rest is air picking.

I just do not experiment a lot, and I can usually hit the numbers without a lot trimming or motor experimentation.

IMO,models trimmed with extra long motor runs and not a lot of torque are risky critters in a contest environment.

Bob
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ricardo
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« Reply #178 on: July 07, 2009, 05:59:38 PM »

DeLoach uses a 6 strand 3/32" motor. He might put 2400 turns into it. It runs close to 2 minutes.
His plane is optimized for that motor setup .... In sink or bad turbulence the Polecat has the same problems as any other plane.
Dan, do you know what prop he uses?

Is there a link to a plan or 3 view of Polecat? I can't find the build thread for it.
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danberry
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« Reply #179 on: July 07, 2009, 06:20:28 PM »

Don uses a Peck prop. I think its been pitched by Gizmo Geezer.
The Polecat was an article. I think it was Model Aviation. At least 3 years ago, no more than 5 years. I'll check with him.
Its a good construction article and a good treatise on his flying style. Don is a very good writer as well
as being a positive asset to the FF community.
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« Reply #180 on: July 07, 2009, 09:06:52 PM »

The modern, undercambered wing PoleCat is in an early '06 NFFS Digest.
The original in Model Aviation 1991 is still available. That has a flat bottom foil.
Don sells the plan for the modern one as well as laser-cut rib sets.
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« Reply #181 on: July 10, 2009, 12:48:43 AM »

In the absence of more detailed info, I'm going to base my analysis on Alex's model and the Igra prop. The Igra looks near MLS so I'll assume that.

Can someone measure the maximum chord of the Igra and its radial position for me? Also the tip chord?

Hepcat's single 75% radius angle measurement will have to do for a pitch distribution.

I'm going to assume the Eppler designed Goettingen 804 foil cos its the only thing I have wind tunnel data for at Re 18k - 25k. If I get some time, I'll run Xfoil on Alex's foil but G804 is not too different.
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« Reply #182 on: July 21, 2009, 11:21:51 PM »

Alex, I got carried away with my analysis and ended up with 7 pages after discussion with Hepcat, who is a true guru being ex-DeHavilland Propellers.

All the pontificating suggests that for Saturno ...

Use a slight smaller rubber cross-section with your Igra so that the static motor run is about the same or longer than your present Peck one.

This should give better Igra results. Maybe better than the Peck but I have no Peck data.

Download my article: P-30 Prop.pdf


Ratz Edit: Added link to PDF
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Alexandre Cruz
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« Reply #183 on: July 24, 2009, 07:52:48 PM »

Ricardo I will try that, thanks.

Saturno V3 was published in El Aeromodelista in argentina and in this blog you can also see the new Saturno V4: http://p30br.blogspot.com/search/label/Projetos%20nacionais
So far 1:08 on 450 turns (out of 1200), INDOORs!
 
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« Reply #184 on: March 18, 2010, 05:09:47 AM »

Okay I decided that 57gms (without rubber for a P30) is tooooooo much Shocked

This was my first FF model built many moons ago and has had a bit of a charmed life, always doing well in comps and has taught me a few things about trimming on the way...

It is of course John O'Donnell's Teachers Pet. I've subsequently built an updated version which I've still to trim out so since I'm supposed to be flying P30 on Sunday I made the decision to put this old bird on a serious diet (hopefully without changing the trim too wildly... Undecided

It now weighs a comparatively svelt 46gms.

Changes included a new lighter tail (saving 2.5gms) with a bit of noseweight saved as a consequence as well. Hollowing the noseblock, recovering the wing tips and adding a smidge more span. The tail and wing tips are tissue over mylar on top and clear mylar only underneath. Stripping the fuz and shaving all the spacers and longerons down then recovering (tissue/mylar)... you get the general idea. Probably be easier and quicker to have built a new one Tongue

Anyway here she is

Refurbishmently
Paul
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« Reply #185 on: March 18, 2010, 05:37:49 AM »

Well done that man, and good luck on Sunday - are you flying mini-vint as well? Sadly I have a family commitment and will miss out - a bit of a b*mmer really as the weather looks OK.

Like you, I'm into recycling of models. My JGP 30 is now on its third fuse, having lost the model & only got the wing back, and then broke a second fuse. The wings are looking a bit sorry for themselves, the dihedral ribs having deformed, and I was thinking of building a new 'un. Your post has incentivised me to just graft in a couple of new ribs & part re-cover, however, before that I have a couple of F1Qs to finish, plus a DLG for the Nats. Congrats to Julian for his win, it's obviously the way to go!

Peter
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DaddyO
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« Reply #186 on: March 18, 2010, 08:00:11 AM »

Thanks Peter

I'll pass on your best wishes to JP - what was obvious was a good big un will beat a good little un in the same air (demonstrated a couple of times on Sunday) I've decided to build a DLG too so much balsa dust will be flying shortly Wink

I'm hoping for a calmish day since I need to do some trimming before entering any classes...

Sorry you can't have a go - next time?

Glad to hear that you're into making sure that you get the most out of your models too. Looking forward to seeing your F1Q's

Paul
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« Reply #187 on: March 20, 2010, 08:50:40 PM »

Okay I decided that 57gms (without rubber for a P30) is tooooooo much Shocked

This was my first FF model built many moons ago and has had a bit of a charmed life, always doing well in comps and has taught me a few things about trimming on the way...

It is of course John O'Donnell's Teachers Pet. I've subsequently built an updated version which I've still to trim out so since I'm supposed to be flying P30 on Sunday I made the decision to put this old bird on a serious diet (hopefully without changing the trim too wildly... Undecided

It now weighs a comparatively svelt 46gms.

Changes included a new lighter tail (saving 2.5gms) with a bit of noseweight saved as a consequence as well. Hollowing the noseblock, recovering the wing tips and adding a smidge more span. The tail and wing tips are tissue over mylar on top and clear mylar only underneath. Stripping the fuz and shaving all the spacers and longerons down then recovering (tissue/mylar)... you get the general idea. Probably be easier and quicker to have built a new one Tongue

Anyway here she is

Refurbishmently
Paul

DaddyO, Very Nice!! Best of Luck, OTF'er
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DaddyO
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« Reply #188 on: March 21, 2010, 05:09:28 PM »

Good grief Rickenbakker Shocked

(Thanks OTFlier by the way) Smiley

Ever had one of THOSE days?

Suffice to say I've got the TP going nicely now, but missed the flyoff thanks to the arborial decoration that surround Merryfield Tongue

Edited highlights appear in the been flying section...

Trainee lumberjack
Paul
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« Reply #189 on: April 07, 2010, 09:52:52 AM »

Well, had to replace the Super 30 I lost last summer (OOS) in Atlanta. Pic's of new one attached, finished weight without motor is 44 grams, covering is Esaki tissue with 3 coats of Nitrate cut 50/50, fuselage is covered with P/span with 3 coats of Nitrate 50/50. Have not had a chance to start trimming yet! Spring breezes are running 15-20 mph hear in central Tennessee.

Scott
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« Reply #190 on: April 07, 2010, 10:10:06 AM »

http://picasaweb.google.com.br/Eduardoyamin/SatV4#

http://picasaweb.google.com.br/Eduardoyamin/Saturno3#
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« Reply #191 on: April 07, 2010, 10:39:58 AM »

WELL DONE Scott. The Souper p-30 is a great one. I have also lost one oos. Still plan to build another one soon myself.
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« Reply #192 on: April 08, 2010, 09:09:27 PM »

I very rarely build a model to another's design - other than in Oldtimer an Nostalgia, of course - but, last October, Alexandre Cruz tempted me with a downloadable plan of the 'Saturno V.3'

This model is my sole output for the past winter (is it past?), representing the outcome of occasional 10-15 minute spells in the workshop.  "As is" it now just requires wing and stabiliser keys, MAAC # and address tag, and a d/t line.  Pop-off wing for this model. Weight is 35 grammes so I may now add a tracker rather than put deadweight ballast at the CG

Thanks, Alex!

JM
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« Reply #193 on: April 09, 2010, 07:48:53 AM »

I'm still toying with the idea to build a P-30 (AND the Senator) even though the nearest flying site for such models is still a bit out of reach. I also prefer to build from a plan rather than a kit (kit boxes take up too much room and sometimes get "lost" in the pile Roll Eyes). Where is the SATURNO available for download? (v.4 is also flying).
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« Reply #194 on: April 09, 2010, 09:15:38 AM »

Jim, that looks like a serious competitor!! Looks like a lot of under camber.

Scott
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« Reply #195 on: April 09, 2010, 12:40:57 PM »

Jim,

Nice looking airplane! A Gizmo geezer prop if I'm not mistaken eh?

Pete, try here: http://p30br.blogspot.com/search/label/Projetos%20nacionais
Should be a plan for Alex's Saturno in .pdf format

Tmat
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« Reply #196 on: April 09, 2010, 01:42:52 PM »

HOBOY! Lots of P-30's. Not in .pdf, but doesn't need to be as construction is straightforward (for all of them). For the SATURNO, the construction article in Spanish, is a nice plus as I can still read Spanish (I grew up in Mexico Grin).

Now, to decide what to do...
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« Reply #197 on: April 09, 2010, 03:53:44 PM »

Nice work Jim Smiley
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« Reply #198 on: April 09, 2010, 04:11:08 PM »


Great site! But some links no longer work. If any one has the plan for the "Meteoro" I would like a copy. Thanks!!

[email protected]

Lyman
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« Reply #199 on: April 09, 2010, 04:20:46 PM »

Me too. I would like a plan if possible.
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