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Author Topic: Show us your P-30's  (Read 61653 times)
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flydean1
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« Reply #625 on: September 18, 2012, 08:03:23 PM »

Tapio,

To your question of flying P30's in rough weather.
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flydean1
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« Reply #626 on: September 18, 2012, 08:17:38 PM »

Ok, I hit the wrong button.   Roll Eyes

Ahem!  flying P-30's in rough weather.  I/ve seen it done successfully with a model which is designed for the conditions.  Basically, it takes a shorter motor--8 or more strands of 1/8.   Short but powerful burst and a model which can control it.  Wing needs to be tapered such that the tips are light, and the motor tube is short with a light tail boom coupled with a short nose moment.  In other words, light extremeties (sp?).

There was just such a model featured in an obscure puplication circulated amongst dedicated nut-case Free Flighters known as the Free Flight Quarterly.  Jim Mayes was the designer and the model was his Accipiter design.  It was part of one of the special dedicated P-30 Special Issues. 

Jim didn't address the rough weather performance in the article, but I saw him fly it in wind velocities in the region of 7 m/sec as you experienced.  It had a very short prop run, but it would climb very rapidly and punch through the ground turbulence.  He was able to launch in lulls between the stronger gusts.  I helped  him chase using GPS, maps and good binoculars.  No tracker!  It would go about half a mile in 2 minutes.  His main challenge was lighting the fuse when the wind abated.  Sometimes it just didn't happen.  A non-fuse DT would have fixed that problem.

Check out the article.   Grin

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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #627 on: September 18, 2012, 09:21:45 PM »

Here's the Accipiter plan NOT full size.
I've also seen the Model fly. It gets up fast and seems to stay there.
Dave Andreski
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dosco
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« Reply #628 on: September 19, 2012, 08:39:13 AM »

Here's the Accipiter plan NOT full size.
I've also seen the Model fly. It gets up fast and seems to stay there.
Dave Andreski

Can you upload to the plans page?
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #629 on: September 19, 2012, 09:08:59 AM »

I remember the Accipiter (actually the wing planform shows some resemblance to my latest model). However, on Sunday I was not happy with attempts of straight initial climb. Maybe with 6 strands the model is not fast enought, but I should try at 8... Would the greater speed make the model less sensitive to turbulence, or is it just so that a small model gets thrown around in big turbulence? If the latter is true, then the 8 strands would not help, just make more spectacular crashes... :-)
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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #630 on: September 19, 2012, 10:55:17 AM »

Dave,
Sorry, I don't own a full size plan. The posted image was taken from the FFQ P-30 disc.
Dave
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bedowinn
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« Reply #631 on: October 21, 2012, 02:03:36 AM »

2nd Boomer
Wing and stab DT Gizmo 9.5" prop. Both Boomer kits were excellent quality, plans and instructions were easy to follow and very detailed. The Boomer trimmed out in about 15 flights (with Clint's help).
First one flew away at Lost Hills FF contest. 1st flight in anger it rode a nice column of air that a partial DT could not conquer.
I like to think it's still flying, past Hawaii, and AF, heading for Tokyo. BTW, AF's desalination plant down.
Hopefully I've improved the DT system on this one.
Mass 47.8g.
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hoogie007
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« Reply #632 on: October 22, 2012, 02:48:02 PM »

Nice job Mike-this one looks like it will do justice to the lost one in the Pacific.

Looking forward to your trim sessions at Perris-give me a call.

Clint
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bedowinn
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« Reply #633 on: October 24, 2012, 01:01:44 AM »

Nice job Mike-this one looks like it will do justice to the lost one in the Pacific.

Looking forward to your trim sessions at Perris-give me a call.

Clint

Thanks Clint,
My favorite part of the build is slicing the wing spars. This one is 1 to 1.5g lighter.
Hope to fly it this Sat. I think I have a decent DT setup this time. Ran the timer for 1 to 5 minutes.
Is the next contest in Jan??

Mike
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hoogie007
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« Reply #634 on: October 24, 2012, 02:37:20 PM »

The next major contest that includes P-30 is the SWR in Eloy-check the NFFS master calendar to find the dates.

I guess the time warp reference to AF did not hit a nerve...
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #635 on: October 24, 2012, 04:37:50 PM »

The next major contest that includes P-30 is the SWR in Eloy-check the NFFS master calendar to find the dates.

I guess the time warp reference to AF did not hit a nerve...
  I caught the reference to Midway... We sure were lucky way back then
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bedowinn
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« Reply #636 on: October 26, 2012, 12:09:37 AM »

The next major contest that includes P-30 is the SWR in Eloy-check the NFFS master calendar to find the dates.

I guess the time warp reference to AF did not hit a nerve...
  I caught the reference to Midway... We sure were lucky way back then

It still sends a shiver up my spine to read about those days in June. Some of the after action reports are online. Just 5 months after Pearl Harbor a bunch of guys drove their Army Air Corp bombers off the Hornet to attack Japan. And 7 months after Pearl Harbor the fate of the war in the pacific was cast.
What those guys did out there......just incredible. I know I'm pontificating here, but our hobby is a link to these historical events.
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RomSGN
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« Reply #637 on: December 03, 2012, 01:43:07 PM »

This is my first P30 with which I begin ... Wink
This is the PEE WEE of Ikara.d  Cheesy
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Romain

"Une fois que vous aurez gouté au vol, vous marcherez à jamais les yeux tournés vers le ciel, car c'est là que vous êtes allés et c'est là que toujours, vous désirerez ardemment retourner"
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« Reply #638 on: December 06, 2012, 04:10:30 PM »

I  just opened a dusty old box of mine in my workshop full of balsa, spruce, music wire , jap covering and some good old 1986 orange pirelli rubber.....
why not building a P30 for fun ?
I stopped free flight contests since 25 years....just before mylar and carbon age. So first classic (just mylar covering) building to experiment. It seem I
 have not lost my building skill.

triming in flight next spring .....


 
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Alvaro Sala
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« Reply #639 on: February 17, 2013, 09:27:28 PM »

I don't belive it will be a winner in a contest.

Well...
This morning I did win a local contest with the Cometa (shown in reply #610).
We were 10 competitors.
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applehoney
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« Reply #640 on: February 18, 2013, 09:57:29 AM »

Congratulations, Alvaro -   and with a very elegant airplane, too.

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Ding
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« Reply #641 on: February 19, 2013, 06:19:12 PM »

A beautiful P-30 Cometa wins in a Brazilian winter.  Good work, Alvaro!  Now you can be really proud. 

Here's a tip:  Walt Ghio says that the FAI SS from 2009 has been the best so far because of the new formula.  I have been using Jan 2011 which has a thickness of 0.046 in. and has served me well.  It gives me more than a thousand turns on 6 strands 1/8 to a torque of 8 oz-in.

Ding
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Alvaro Sala
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« Reply #642 on: February 19, 2013, 07:56:31 PM »

Thanks Ding and Jim.

I'm really proud, especially because the Cometa beat three Saturnos (Superb design by Alexandre Cruz, winner of a few competitions in Argentina. I guess Jim has built one).
I used 6 strans of SS FAI 1/8 with 1.100 turns, don't know the year of the crop.
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Dtriano
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« Reply #643 on: March 16, 2013, 05:08:16 PM »

Hello, by way of introduction here is my first P-30. The last time I built any type of free flight aircraft was in 1989, when I made a few Pennyplanes and Ornithopters...... but one day about two months ago I remembered what fun building model aircraft was, and decided to see what the hobby had been up to for the last 24 years. I found this excellent web site, and the P-30 aircraft appealed to me as a good way to 'get my feet wet' again. Also, I must say that the civilized and jovial nature of the discussions here was a main reason why I decided to build again... I have had enough of ugly internet 'expert' hit-and-run discussions that take place in other hobbies.
So, I carefully canvassed the internet for P-30 information, ordered the 'FFQ P-30 Survey 2010', and read every post in this forum. I decided to approach this by finding out what 'state-of-the-art' is, and then diving in with a plans-built design to see if my building skills were up to par. To satisfy the first part (right or wrong, I am sure many people have many favorites) I ordered a 'Pirate' from Mike at StarLink that was built but not covered, assembled, or rigged... it certainly helped to show me the weights involved, and the level of build that would result in a good flying P-30. For the second part of the equation I ordered a short kit (laser cut ribs for wing and stab) for the 'Polecat X' from Don DeLoach.
Here are some shots of the 95% finished Polecat X. I definitely tried to keep most of the salient aspects of Mr. DeLoach's design,but couldn't resist doing things 'my way' in a few areas (which probably cost me another 6 grams or so)! I had some fun learning how to roll a balsa tube fuselage (never done that before), and I ended up with a pretty good result (I think). It is a neat shape, it is a steady circumference for about the first 16" and then tapers smoothly to the tail. Yes, this was somewhat difficult to figure out how to make, I went through 6 of them before I got one that I feel was up to par, straight, and light enough. I used an old ski pole for a mandrel.
I used .05" unidirectional carbon reinforcement where I thought I needed it (probably overkill), and the pylon is carbon/S glass hybrid cloth in Aeropoxy 2032 resin over a 1/64" balsa base shape. It has a basic viscous Badge timer to engage the full-wing DT, and I made the little lever and hinge assembly from carbon stock that I had around the shop. It works great, and is very reliable in testing. The wing was fun to build, but came out a bit heavy and I tried to lighten it by healthy use of a diamond hole saw on my dremel, don't think I would do this again as it didn't really make much difference. I also left off the shaped balsa wingtips. The wing and stab are covered in 1/4 mil mylar, with glo-orange and black accents on the wing. No chrome on this one yet, but I may add a strip of chrome tape here and there for flash.
Gizmo Geezer front end and prop, and I am waiting for my Gizmo Geezer winder, counter, and torque meter to arrive. Here in Lake Tahoe it has been a steady cold winter, so I won't be flying for a while. I will likely be flying on one of my many trips out to the Black Rock Desert, one of my favorite places.

Total weight as it sits right now, minus rubber, is 48 grams. So, it's heavy, but from what I read here it should fly just fine. Anyways, happy to meet you all, and please be kind with my first attempt---:)

Best regards- Dave Triano

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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #644 on: March 16, 2013, 05:50:17 PM »

Dave,
Very nice workmanship all around.
It sounds like you enjoyed the build and I hope you enjoy the flying even more.
Dave
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Dtriano
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« Reply #645 on: March 16, 2013, 06:06:50 PM »

Thank you Dave---

Here are some shots of the Pirate. The quality of the fuselage was most surprising, and it weighs only 7 grams with the front aluminum ring and motor peg in the back...! As I said, this is a 'covering exercise' as it is mostly pre-built, but I am also having a bit more fun with the full-wing DT... this one uses the 'band burner', and a 'mousetrap' device to release the rubber band. I haven't installed the DT yet, but I couldn't wait to see what it looked like together! All 1/4 mil mylar with glo-yellow on the left wingtip (and Jolly Roger!), with a subtle Blue Candy fade in the middle of the wing and stab. The rudder is covered in a neat iridescent mylar that I had around here from a rocket project about 10 years ago, it's about as heavy as Monokote but it sure gives a neat flash and coloration.
The most shocking thing about the aircraft to me is shown in the second shot.... it is of the whole aircraft on my trusty triple-beam balance scale, and the whole enchilada (minus rubber but with Band Burner, hinges, mousetrap, etc.) weighs 28.5 grams!!! After the heavy build on my Polecat I really appreciate the difference, it's really not that easy to build a very light, very strong P-30, quite a challenge.
So, how should I fatten this up? Just add lead ballast at the CG?

DT
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #646 on: March 16, 2013, 07:33:03 PM »

You might weigh a 25 cent coin and if it weighs in ok just tape it to the nose somewhere.
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jswain
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« Reply #647 on: March 17, 2013, 03:00:40 AM »

Here are some shots of the Pirate....weighs 28.5 grams!!! DT
Hi Dave T.

If you get a chance, would you share the individaul weights of the other parts of the Pirate model - stab = x gms, wing = y gms, hub/prop assy = z gms, .....etc. ?
I'm always interested what a  component *can* get to - the only other way to know with the Pirate is to ask an owner or buy one Undecided
The ohaus triple beam has been a fixture at my house also since about 1988 +/-, many models have sat upon its shiny metal plate, needs no batteries to operate either ....
john s.
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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #648 on: March 17, 2013, 08:55:13 AM »

"So, how should I fatten this up? Just add lead ballast at the CG"?

Dave,
Yes, after loading the 10g motor. Better to have the 'ballast' adjustable until things get trimmed out.

Dave
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« Reply #649 on: March 17, 2013, 10:33:20 AM »

I've never built the "Pirate" P-30,so my perspective maybe wrong here.The 28.5 gram weight is no doubt due to being all mylar covered. Your photos do show a carbon tube wing spar and a carbon fiber L.E. on the stab. Both, good as far as resistant to flexing. What I don't see is any torsional rigidity from using mylar covering only. Covering with tissue would have increased the weight 8-10 grams and ridigity.
Just my 2cents,  Thom
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