Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
February 25, 2020, 02:17:13 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: 1 ... 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 [34] 35 36 37   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Show us your P-30's  (Read 63337 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #825 on: January 21, 2015, 12:42:18 PM »

Building very slowly (on purpose), but I finally got the wing built. It's got a 3.2mm carbon spar, 1mm rib caps, except 3mm at the dihedral and 2mm at the center rib. I think it's stiff enough, we'll find out when I cover it!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
Logged
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #826 on: January 31, 2015, 02:39:50 PM »

Got all the surfaces covered, used 1/4 mil mylar for the stab and rudder, I chickened out a little and used 3/8 mylar for the wing (instead of 1/4). Came out nice and smooth, also seems stiff enough. I really like using UHU for covering, you can re-position the mylar to get it pretty smooth so you don't have to shrink it too much, I think that's why I've never had problems so far with it pulling off from the undercamber. Just have to paint the tips without messing it up, get the equip in, and mount the pylon, not in a rush because it's supposed to be pretty windy next week so no flying for another week, darn!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
Logged
bigrip74
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 12
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 308




Ignore
« Reply #827 on: January 31, 2015, 03:36:26 PM »

Flyguy, that is a really nice build so far. I have never thought of using a carbon spar, what is the weight difference to balsa and where do I order from. I have a crazy to test out a dime scale wing with the carbon spar.

Bob
Logged

If it aint broke dont fix it!
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #828 on: January 31, 2015, 04:30:31 PM »

Thanks Bob, no major goof ups and the covering job came out really nice this time. The wing builds pretty fast with the spar approach; it's also a useful test run for my next Coupe, where I'm planning on building the same type of wing. The completed wing weights 13.4 grams, and from what I can tell comparing to the weights given for a bunch of P30s in FF Quarterly (both balsa and hi-tec), that seems to be pretty good. I got the spars from Mike Woodhouse, http://www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk/ , it's under Hi-Tec materials. Don't get (unless you want to save money) the pultruded (or micro) tubes, those are heavier (I got some of all of them so that I could compare the weights), you want the ones under the Tubular Carbon Spars section, the 3.2mm one I used was the 800mm long version (listed as tail spars!) and Mike reports a weight of 1.6 grams, which I think is pretty good considering it's 31.5" long; I checked against a 1/8" sq. hard spar (probably would have used 1/16 by 1/8 top and bottom) and that was over 3g, so it's pretty light, yet much stiffer and stronger, I was impressed when I got them. I also got the fuselage, shown in an earlier post, from Mike, it's listed as 'lightweight carbon fiber tubes', and I got the rib caps from Mike as well. If anyone knows where one can get the same tubular CF spars in the states, please let me know, that would save on shipping! (although Mike is very responsive and great to order from)  Larry
Logged
DerekMc
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 53
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,440



Ignore
« Reply #829 on: January 31, 2015, 04:38:22 PM »

If anyone knows where one can get the same tubular CF spars in the states, please let me know, that would save on shipping! (although Mike is very responsive and great to order from)  Larry

I've bought tubular carbon spars of various sizes from Starlink in the past. Don't know if they still carry them or not. Just checked and they have them listed here:

http://www.starlink-flitetech.com/product-list
Logged

They fly better when you smile!
Derek
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #830 on: January 31, 2015, 05:05:52 PM »

Thanks, that's funny you mention Starlink, I just received a bunch of Coupe half-tubes from them (i.e., Mike P) today! dammit I should have ordered a few of the spars to check them out (do you remember about what the price was?). So are they from unidirectional cloth, like Mike W's, or something like that, and not pultruded, I wasn't sure? I'm impressed with how light they are. I think FAI model supply also used to have them, but I don't see them listed now. thank goodness I bought a bunch, enough for a few planes.
Logged
DerekMc
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 53
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 1,440



Ignore
« Reply #831 on: January 31, 2015, 05:10:46 PM »

Sorry, i don't remember the cost. They are the light, not the pultruted type. They are the ones used in the Starlink P30 kits. Very nice.
Logged

They fly better when you smile!
Derek
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #832 on: January 31, 2015, 06:03:50 PM »

Thanks! I'll check them out next time I place an order.
Logged
steveair2
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 7
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 220



Ignore
« Reply #833 on: January 31, 2015, 10:06:50 PM »

Flyguy,  I used to have much fun flying my P-30 Hawk.  Very much enjoy watching your videos and what you are building and flying. Very cool!

Thanks
Logged
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #834 on: January 31, 2015, 11:01:10 PM »

Thank you! I hope it gets you building and flying as well. Your comment encourages me to finish the video I have on the p30 build I outlined here, which has been done piecemeal over months. I guess I'm moving somewhat slowly these days, I have too many planes to fly! Plus there appear to be age limitations - 1 hour of building and my back is sore; 3 hours of flying and I feel like someone punched me in the face! wasn't like that when I was a kid
Logged
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #835 on: February 07, 2015, 03:54:31 PM »

Finally finished my second P30, shown below. This one came out very light, the total weight, not including the pylon, was 38.5 grams! So with a small 2 gram or less pylon for free flight, it just clears the 40g minimum, so I'm pretty happy. The RC version needs a much larger (taller and wider) pylon to hold the equipment, which came out to 4.4 grams, so the total is 42.9 grams, not bad for an RC version. The only ways I can think of to further lighten it would be to use 4-6 pound contest balsa for the ribs, wing mount, and pylon (I used 8-12 lb. art store balsa), and 1/4 mil mylar for the wing (I used 3/8 mil), which should lighten it a few more grams. I'm also thinking of ways to redesign the pylon so that it's smaller. The equipment weighs 6.3 grams, so the final total flying weight is around 50 grams, which is the minimum weight in some countries. I tried using a Kevlar pull-pull system this time, shown in the last photo, and was relieved to find that it appears to work well. Given that this P30 is 20 grams lighter than my last one, which flies great, I'm expecting some nice flying! I put up a building video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwc3eGVWm-o&list=UUJ4EgSJhWkhuycvXmEg2caw
On to the next project (even smaller RC rubber)! I'm really going have to give away some planes to make room!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
Re: Show us your P-30's
Re: Show us your P-30's
Logged
Dave Andreski
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 82
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 3,052




Ignore
« Reply #836 on: February 08, 2015, 03:25:08 PM »

Flyguy,
GREAT looking P-30's!
Dave
Logged

Aspire to inspire before you expire.
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #837 on: February 08, 2015, 04:36:28 PM »

Thanks Dave, you always have nice things to say!
Now if this damn wind would just die down a little I could get out and fly! Larry
Logged
bentodd
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 30



Ignore
« Reply #838 on: February 08, 2015, 08:35:40 PM »

Beautiful mylar covering job.  Can't see a single wrinkle.

On my last plane, the there were lots of little wrinkles along each of the of the ribs.

followed your lead and used glue stick.  Finding that special glue and thinning it down sounds like a pain.

do you shrink the mylar with an iron or a hot air gun?  If you use an iron, what temperature do you set it to.

PS, I admire your work bench.  It would take me days to clean it up like that.
Logged
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #839 on: February 08, 2015, 10:09:23 PM »

Thank you. This covering job was really satisfying, I really limited the screw-ups! I know what you're talking about because I've had that wrinkle-at-the-rib problem as well. I try to get it on smoother and tighter across the ribs, you can work the mylar a little with the uhu. Basically, my procedure is: I put uhu around the outline (and on the undercamber for the bottom, with a double coat), then I hold the mylar pretty taught and place it on the structure (could use a frame as an alternative), getting it positioned. You can always pull it up if it's not right and just apply more uhu, that's what I like about the glue stick. After it's positioned, I pull on the edges all around the frame to get it pretty smooth, you have a small window with the uhu to shift it around a little. Let it dry at least an hour, then I trim off the excess, then make another pass with the uhu over the edges, smoothing it down with my finger. After that dries I use a hot iron set pretty high to shrink it down and smooth it along the edges. Finally, when top and bottom are covered, I use a hot air gun to shrink the mylar. I know each has their own way, but I really like the air gun over the iron for shrinking mylar - you can just shrink a little by keeping it further away and blast areas that need shrinking by moving it in, so you can control the heat more precisely, at least for my clumsy hands. You can also get rid of the rib wrinkles that way if you're careful.

The workbench is only not too bad for pictures, otherwise it's a mess the rest of the time!
Logged
bentodd
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 30



Ignore
« Reply #840 on: February 08, 2015, 11:02:59 PM »

Thanks for the tips.  Gon'na have to practice more.
Logged
gossie
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 49
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 1,769



Ignore
« Reply #841 on: February 11, 2015, 11:40:52 PM »

Just finished a P30.  Weight 42 grams.

Esaki tissue covering.  Long motor.....4 strands of 1/8th Tan2 from front to rear.

  Fuselage 1in square box 3/32 longerons with 1/16th x 1/16th warren girder spacers.

Wing 1/16th X 1/16th geodetic on bottom with undercamber, 1/8th X 1/8th spar, then 1/16th X 1/16 cracked ribs on top.  Turbulator spar on top behind leading edge.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
Logged
Flyguy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 41
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 812




Ignore
« Reply #842 on: February 11, 2015, 11:57:37 PM »

Beautiful P30, nice to have some new pictures! Good weight too, nice.

So the tissue is Esaki, and it looks like the center section is orange?, but what about the tips? I like the colors. That's a 9.5" yellow Czech prop right?

I think a turbulator right behind the leading edge is at maybe 4%? I'm wondering because mine is closer to 10% and so is clearly behind the 1/8" sq leading edge. keep us posted on the flying part!
Logged
gossie
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 49
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 1,769



Ignore
« Reply #843 on: February 12, 2015, 03:56:26 AM »

Thanks.

Esaki orange all over except tips that are Esaki red.   Pic is a bit washed out looking.

Yes yellow Czech prop.  Some love these props, but I'm not sure.   I have another rolled boom P30 pictured very early in this thread that uses a gray prop. and even at close to 45G? or so with 4 strands of 1/8th in it it's always flown well.
I did at one stage a while back fit the yellow Czech prop. with a new nose block so I could try out both props in it, and I feel the gray one was best.

Had the yellow one on hand so built this new P30 to use it........Can always get hold of a new gray one in the future to experiment if I feel like it I guess.

Turbulator spar is about 5% behind the LE.........I actually just made the model up as I went without a plan except in my old head.
I just wanted it as light as I could build it with enough strength in it to survive, a fraction under 30in span, with a wide chord for lots of area, 1/3rd area stab, and long fuselage to take 4 strands of rubber.
Rolled boom fuselage model I wind the motor in it, and if it busts no problem, but this new one I will need to find a plastic tube to use as a blast tube, or the fuselage if the motor goes bang will be back to "kit form".

I'll probably take it up to the park for a spot of trimming to see how it goes on a calm morning.
Logged
OZPAF
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 183
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 5,355



Ignore
« Reply #844 on: February 12, 2015, 06:46:00 PM »

Very nice Gossie.

John
Logged
ricardo
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 189



Ignore
« Reply #845 on: February 12, 2015, 10:48:08 PM »

Wing 1/16th X 1/16th geodetic on bottom with undercamber ...
Gossie, are these bent 1/16 sticks or cut from 1/16 sheet?

And what are "1/16th X 1/16 cracked ribs on top"?

Logged

An engineer is someone who can do for 2 bob what any fool can do for a quid
gossie
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 49
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 1,769



Ignore
« Reply #846 on: February 12, 2015, 10:55:01 PM »

Wing 1/16th X 1/16th geodetic on bottom with undercamber ...
Gossie, are these bent 1/16 sticks or cut from 1/16 sheet?

And what are "1/16th X 1/16 cracked ribs on top"?




Under ribs cut to shape from 1/16th sheet.  Glued to LE & TE.   Spar glued on.
Upper ribs 1/16th X 1/16th strips cut to length from LE to TE and cracked where you can see them cracked in the pic.  Glued to LE, spar and TE.
Turbulator spar glued on top.
Logged
calgoddard
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 23
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 949


AMA, NFFS & FAC Member



Ignore
« Reply #847 on: April 22, 2015, 02:30:56 PM »

I built a HOT BOX P - 30 to fly in the John Oldenkamp memorial contest this Sunday in Otay Mesa, California, located just south of San Diego.

Today I did some test flights. After one minor adjustment (1/32" shim under the stab) and one repair (broken longeron) she put up a couple of good flights.

John originated the P - 30 class, along with one other gentleman.  He published this design in Model Builder magazine in 1977.

He was a great flier, an innovative designer, and a fun person to be around.  John was also very generous with his time.  His last passion in airplane modeling appeared to be the E - 36 class.

John will be sorely missed by the free flight community.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 03:59:11 PM by calgoddard » Logged
climber
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 10
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 176




Ignore
« Reply #848 on: May 03, 2015, 09:08:27 PM »

My first modern P-30.

Stab and fin have carbon fibre capped balsa ribs, carbon tube leading edge, carbon strip trailing edge and are made to one of Tony Mathews plans. 

The wing is actually from my E-30.  I'll build a proper wing after flying it for a while as it puts the whole thing way over the minimum weight. 

D/T is electronic with a pop-off wing.  The stab is removable and incident adjustments are made with a nylon bolt in the rear. 

The fuse and tail boom are made from rolled balsa laminated with tissue.  I actually made the fuse and boom about 15 years ago so I guess one could say it's "modern-ish." 
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Show us your P-30's
Logged
climber
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 10
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 176




Ignore
« Reply #849 on: May 03, 2015, 09:22:46 PM »

That's a great looking Hot Box!

It was a photo of that airplane in Model Builder that dragged me back into the world of FreeFlight.  I saw it while browsing some magazines in a used book store in the early 90's.  I was instantly hooked. 

A few weeks later I scoured all of the used book stores in Victoria B.C. where I was living at the time and scooped up pretty much every single magazine or book that had any kind of Free Flight material in it in the entire city.   I then called all of the model stores looking for building materials or kits.  There was little to be had.  A place up island about an hour away had some tissue and kits so off I went.  All they actually had was some brown domestic tissue, boxes of old Sig rubber, a couple of Guillows kits, and some bits and parts of Peck stuff. 

That was enough.

One thing that surprises me, I don't actually have a copy of the Hotbox plans and have never built one. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 [34] 35 36 37   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!