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Author Topic: Couple questions on my first build of a ON 28  (Read 2323 times)
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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 06:45:57 PM »

Here's a cute story about building/flying the ONE NIGHT 28.
Along about 1985 I was living with my older brother and his 'clan' of ELEVEN children. We had  a good, solid, ping pong table as our building base. LOTS of room to build.
My nephews were soon smitten by my interest in Rubber FreeFlight. One, Michael we'll call him, bought a Peck Polymers kit for the One Night 28. He proceeded to build the fuse w/o any of uncle Dave's help. He built TWO sides ,then a top and a bottom. In other words 8 (eight) longerons instead of four. What to do? Make a new noseblock! That being done, we shaved/balanced the prop without knowing any of the 'official' P-30 rules regarding props. We lubed up some SIG Rubber, (don't remember how much),  with castor oil, made a few glide tests, proceeded to 'wind 'er up' without a 'real'stooge, launched and was very happy to have the Model fly for about 70 (seventy) seconds on it's maiden voyage.
I was impressed with the kit.
Attached is the winder used 'back then'.
Dave Andreski
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applehoney
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2011, 06:46:13 PM »

Quote
a basic 5:1 or 15:1 winder will work.  But if you are serious about flying P-30s and larger models, then you need a more stout winder, which is a big investment

Beware of the  5:1 and 15:1  black winders  (SIG?) as the winding handle tends to come to pieces after a period of use.   The yellow 10:1 -of British origin but available from various vendors in the US - stands up  to years of hard use and is just capable of winding a P30 to full turns .

As Caley says - for larger motors one needs something sturdier.
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Victor
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2011, 09:19:22 PM »

Thanks again everyone.   Building a stooge is now on my to do list, along with researching winders.

I cobbled up something for the tail feathers, where I could make some adjustments.  With 9.4 gms of the 3/16 rubber that came in the kit, in four strands, the total weight ready to go was 49.8 gms.  But it is pretty tail heavy, I think I could make it 2 grams lighter in the tail.

I did a few low power tests, like it says in Ross' book, 100, then 200 winds.  I had to put the wing back 10.5 inches from the nose to stop stalls that would cause big nose down drops; at this stage, I get a slow climb, a mild stall and recovery losing maybe a few feet, then during the glide it also tends to do the same thing, a mush stall, drop about 3 feet to recover, then continued gliding; but overall, relatively docile behavior.  I was able to fiddle a bit with the rudder, it tended to go straight the whole time, power or glide; was stable, no nose plants.    But I think it is tail heavy, with the wing too far back to balance.  I remember reading that the wing shoudn't be back more than 6.75 inches from the nose, with the CG two inches back from the LE.   With this set up, the wing is back 10.5 inches from the nose, with the CG about 1" from the LE.   This low power doesn't give you much to analyze from the power side, but it gets it up about 20 feet so you can watch the glide, and the glide is not right yet; still gentle porpoise-type movement.  Any advice is welcome! I'm sure the wing is too far back as it is, to think about moving it back any more.  I'm thinking I need to move the wing forward, and add weight to balance.  But I'm first going to build a new stab, this one is heavy, and I would like to modify it a little by getting rid of the swept back - that breaks a span wise stringer, and makes it hard to key.  With a rectangular stab, I don't need to make a key to keep it all square to the fuse.

I've included a picture of the model set up the way I flew it, and two pictures of the tail.  You can see where I made a key under the front of the stab so the front of the rudder would line up straight, and in the back I put in a nylon screw, to adjust decalage.  Between the screw, the key, and the overweight stab, I'm two grams too heavy in the tail.
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Victor
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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2011, 10:02:27 PM »

Thanks Caley for all your help on this.  Following up on your advice, I did about four test flights, after some gentle hand launches.  I was short on time, and it became clear pretty quickly that I needed some bench adjustments before trying more flying.  I have a small field close to the house I can walk to; there is a community college across the street with a bigger field, but still probably small for full winds; but probalby good enough for low power test flights.  I don't think I would try over 200 winds in the small field down the street.

With the 200 winds, I didn't get a full circle; about 3/4 circle to the left one time, then about half circle to the right, after fiddling with the rudder.

I'm going to put in an order for some of the odds and ends I need - a crocket hook, alum tubing, etc. to upgrade everything.  Looks like the winder is the big ticket item; I've seen the Gizmo Geezer winder/torque meter/counter, and that looks really nice.  I'm thinking of ordering the GG prop/nose assembly for the Majestyk.

And I saw the Square Eagle kit Charlie mentioned, on the Shorty's Basement site.  I had read about the Square Eagle in the P-30 Survey; it looks like a great kit, too.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2011, 10:35:17 PM »

Victor, If I remember the ON28, the wing can be fixed temporarily to the fuselage with rubber bands until you find the sweet spot on the CG.  Make a mark on the wing center where the CG is indicated in the instructions.  Hang the model from the rubber bands over the CG with a string and move the wing until the model balances.  Once you have that, don't change things. 
  I would think the next thing is to do some glide testing of various strengths.  What I mean is to toss gently the first few times and see how the model glides.  If it is doing well, then give it just a little harder toss to see if it goes severely nose up.  If it does, this will translate to the porpoising you mentioned after the power phase.  If I am thinking correctly, you can adjust this problem by adding shims either under the stab LE or the TE, depending on what is happening.  If it is porpoising, then you need to lift the stab LE a 1/64 inch at a time and test again, watching what happens in the glide.  Keep adjusting until you get a nice smooth glide.  If it is going nose down pretty fast, then add the shim under the stab TE in the same manner, tiny increments at a time.
  I was told a bit back that sometimes the model will settle down better if you can get the model to glide in a circle.  to do that, if you wish the model to circle right, which is probably the best for the ON28, then shim under the stab LE/TE on the right side of the fuselage to lift the stab right tip up a little.  The model should glide to the right when shimmed under the right, and left if you shim under the left side. 
  To move the model to the right under the power phase, add a shim on the left side of the prop on the fuse under the nose block.  This will move the prop angle slightly right.  Again, use small increments like 1/64 inch.  All the adjustments I've mentioned are when you are looking from the tail of the model to clarify that point.
  Remember that you are flying the model under very low power right now in the testing.  Don't expect the model to climb out very high.  It probably will just cruise level with 100 turns, maybe climb a little with 200 turns.  You'll start seeing more altitude gained as you increase the turns.  But you also need to watch that your model doesn't zoom up real fast, hang on the prop, lose altitude, recover, and then start flying again.  This is a power stall, which again is dealt with by adding either down or right thrust in small increments.  My mentor Jim Moseley says right thrust is better than adding a lot of down thrust.  If you add a lot of down thrust, you can kill the climb.  So you just need to experiment to find the proverbial sweet spot for the thrust angle.
  Again, a lot to digest, and maybe someone else can explain things much better than I.  I tend to ramble.
  But what you said about the model wanting to go straight/straight tells me one thing.  You built the model very straight.  That is good.  Now you are just building in a little bit of adjustment on the stab and prop to get it to fly properly under power and glide.  Caley
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« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2011, 10:53:31 PM »

In the future you might consider covering your stabs with 1/4 mil (.00025) mylar. The result is a lighter covering, it doesn't warp like tissue and it is weather proof. It's available from FAI Model Supply, Campbell's and other sources. I use it on all my rubber and some gas powered planes.

A simple stooge can be made out of a 1 X 2 with 1/4" plywood side plates. Anchor it to your tailgate or trunk latch.

- Norm
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Victor
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2011, 11:37:11 AM »

Well its starting to all come together now.  Thanks everyone for the advice and help.  I made a new, rectangular stab, saving a gram, and the straight front edge made it much easier to index.  I moved the rudder onto the fuse, and added a trim tab, so that the stab indexing wouldn't be so tricky, affecting the rudder.  I added balsa index tabs to the wing, plus a piece across the top of the fuse, so that the wing would sit exactly the same for each flight, right where the plans show the wing should be.  I needed 6.4 grams to balance the plane per the plans, so I wound that much rubber around the nose of the plane, thinking that would be easy to move around or lighten, if necessary.  So weight now, including the 6.4 grams of nose ballast, puts me around 55 grams.

I took the plane out this morning, early, with no wind, and frost on the ground.  First with 100 winds, I got a nice circle with the plane landing at my feet.  200 rounds got a little altitude, and what looks like a nice gentle glide in a right hand circle.  300 winds saw a steep climb, near stall, and a 30 second flight, with a nice RH circle.  400 winds and the plane slowly went into a vertical stall, recovered, and circled, for 30 seconds again.

So it appears that as I put power on, its not circling under power, and is going too steep.  So I'm planning on adding some RH thrust first, and seeing if I can get it to start climbing to the right, before I add more downthrust.  The fuse seems to have built in a bit of downthrust, but the right thrust is barely noticeable.  It looks to be gliding nice.  I'm also going to remove the rubber band, and put an equivalent weight of solder in the nose.  It was exciting to see the model start to do some flying on a crisp fall morning.  It looks like things are slowly coming together.
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2011, 01:08:26 PM »

Great report Victor.  Make sure you go back to the total number of lturns on the motor as you had without any power stall, after you insert a shim to induce a little right thrust.  I sent you some 1/64 ply that you should be able to use for that purpose.  If you are going to try tomorrow, then you probably can use some card stock lthat is about three times thicker than paper to do the shim. 
  On the next flight with 200 turns, just stand there and watch what the model does.  If it is showing a tiny bit of right hand turn with the shim, then go up to 300 turns and do the same thing, watching what it does.  If it power stalls, then you will probably need a smidgen of down thrust.
  Always make one adjustment at a time, and then fly the next test flight on the same number of turns that was previously successful. 
  Now for a temporary winder.  If you do have a hand drill, then you can do the following.  Remove the chuck, as you do not want to use that to hold the bent hook that will be winding your wire.  The chuck can come off and rekit your model.  Drill a hole through the shaft of the drill large enough to accommodate the wire winding hook.  Then bind the hook with either wire and solder, or if you don't have those, heavy thread and epoxy or CA or DUCO glue.  Several coats of glue is indicated.
  Next check to see how the handle is attached.  Make sure all screws are locked down, as you do not want something coming apart when you are winding.
  And lastly, check the handle that comes with the hand drill,  Many are just pressure fitted.  It probably would be better do drill a hole through the handle and the shaft it resides on, and both glue and put a bolt through it.
  Once you do that, do a trial wind with one full turn, and count the number of turns.  If an odd number do two or three or four turns and count the number of turns.  You then can make a chart of how many turns on the winder handle will equate to the number of turns on the motor.
  I actually started out with a winder like this, but they are not good for much more than P-30's and under, as there is just too much torque on larger motors.
  Have you gotten to your lumber store to see if they have any scrap wood that you might be able to get for free?  That is always a good thing to try, as many, like the one down the street from me tends to box up the scraps and send them off somewhere.  And the guys always let me have a few pieces for little projects I have.
  Look forward to your next.  Caley
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Victor
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2011, 05:40:37 PM »

Caley,
Your advice worked out well; while waiting for the ply you were sending, I used 1/32 balsa for a shim, expecting to replace it with the ply once it got here.  I expoxied a 6.7 gram coil of solder on the bottom of the inside front of the fuse, where it is sheeted.  I elected to add just a touch more weight, as this morning the plane seemed to have just a touch of nose bobbing, like it was on the verge of a stall during the glide.  Since the stab was flat on the fuse, and the incidence for the wing is plus 2 percent, I thought I should add a touch more nose weight, instead of shimming up the leading edge of the stab to drop the nose a touch more.

So with the added right thrust, and the probably half gram - 3/4 gram more weight in the nose, I started with 100 winds, and everything looked good.  The glide seemed to lose that mild nose up/down stuff.  200 winds, looked good.  300 winds got 35 seconds, and seemed more floaty.  So I thought I would end the day with 450 winds, since it seemed to be staying on the smallish field just fine... those probably are common last words... So with 450 winds, it took off nicely, with a good steep climb, turning right during the climb, and didn't stall or get too vertical.   It surprised me a little, getting quite a bit higher than it had from this morning's flight, and apparently there were some odd cross winds up around 40-50 feet, as it drifted towards the only big willow on the edge of the field.  So naturally, after circling the willow once, and giving me hope that the plane would miss the tree, it circled back and stuck in the tree, around 30 feet up, after a 45 second flight. My crappie pole is only 17 feet long, so at the moment it is resting in the tree.  Since that is the same tree that snagged a model rocket that I had shot off a couple months earlier, for my 4 year old grandson's entertainment, I can only conclude that it is a rotten-hearted willow, like Old Man Willow in JRR Tolkien's book, The Hobbit.  The crappie pole was able to reach the rocket, so I retrieved it, but no such luck with the ON28.  So unless it blows down, or I get a much longer pole, this might be the end of the ON28 saga, right when it was really starting to fly nice!  So I should have stuck with my instincts, and kept the flying ambitions more modest, just to trimming flights in this field...

But, a couple hours later, a Square Eagle kit came in the mail.  After Charlie had mentioned it, I remember reading about it in the P30 survey, and, with the flat wing, and only two dihedrals, with doubled ribs at the dihedral, I thought it would be a better second kit, and save the Majestyk for number three. There are a number of things I'd like to do better on my second model, and learn a bit more before trying the Majestyk.

So Caley, when the stuff you send me arrives, I'll put it to good use on the Square Eagle; but maybe I'll get lucky and somehow retrieve the ON28.  Thanks again everyone for the help and advice, and thanks Caley for the material help.  I'm going to get right to work now on the Square Eagle.  This will be even more fun, since I have a sense now of how fun they are to fly.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2011, 06:00:40 PM »

Hey Victor, Not sure what kind of pole you have, but if you fly where trees are, maybe you should go get one of those extendible golf ball retrievers.  You could duct tape the two poles together to maybe get that ON28 out of the nasty tree.  Or maybe you know someone who has another pole you could borrow.  I wouldn't give up on your test model.  It is where you are going to learn, and it is a pain to start all over when you are getting close to training that ON28.
  I thought about your earlier post about having put the wing where the plan is, and adding a lot of weight.  The model is actually designed so you can move the wing up and down the fuselage to get a proper balance.  From what you mentioned, it seems you could move it about 3/4-1 inch back and eliminate all, or most of that useless nose weight. 
  Usually you add nose weight because a model actually has a fixed place for the wing, like a scale model.  Or you may build a model that requires a certain weight, that comes in light, and then you need to add weight to bring it up to standards.  What I usually do when I add nose weight is add pieces of brass rod to the nose block.  There is plenty of room in nose blocks to drill a hole or two in it to take weights.  I try to drill them fairly tight so the weight doesn't need gluing.  It just sticks in place by friction.
  Anyway, if you do get the ON28 out of that tree, and after you check its airworthyness, try removing the nose weight and sliding the wing to get the CG.  If it looks too far back, then add as little dead weight as you can to get the CG set.  This is how I have set my CG's on my ON28, NJAPF P-30's Gollywock and Climber.  Caley
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2011, 06:17:58 PM »

You need to get a longer pole Grin.  If I lived a bit closer, I'd come over with the ten METER (Winchester) pole I picked up last week at a tackle shop in Frankfurt.  It's a bit pricey at 90 Euros, but it's already proved its worth.  I might even get a chance to use it for fishing Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2011, 06:23:31 PM »

Pit and Caley
You're right - I need to cobble together a longer pole.  So I was rummaging around in my storage room and found an extendable paint pole, and a couple six foot lengths of bamboo that seem stiff enough to hold the rest of the stuff.  So tomorrow I'm going to duct tape together a long enough pole, and try to retrieve my plane from the willow.

Victor
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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2011, 10:30:52 PM »

Yea Victor....you have caught the fever of free flight! Welcome to the club...no stopping you now!
 Enjoy...Craig h
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2011, 02:34:21 PM »

OK, recovery was successful.  Took a few duct-taped extensions to my crappie pole.  The wind was blowing, and it had been flailing around for a while, but was stuck pretty good.  It has a few holes in the wing, and a small tear in the wing tissue, but does not seem to be warped or broken.  The stab warped quite noticeably, I suppose due to the big temperature swings and moisture. I've got the stab on the building board with magnets to hold it down flat.  Not sure if that will fix it, or if I need to remove the tissue, steam it up a bit, then hold it down flat and have it dry out flat?  Whether I can fix the stab or have to build a new one, it won't be much trouble to get it flying again.

Victor
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2011, 03:49:16 PM »

Great to hear of the recovery Victor.
   It is possible that the stab got some moisture on it and that tightened the tissue causing the warp.  Do you have a humid climate?  I think you said you lived in Virginia, so you might have had a very moist night that caused things to warp.
  Try spritzing the stab with water and then hold down flat with magnets.  I use a set of magnets on the building board in the outline of the stab, then place the stab atop that.  Then use magnets atop those below and sandwich the stab between them and let the tissue dry for a few hours.  That may get things back to flat.
  If not, then go to plan B, which is removing the tissue and seeing if the wood is bowed, or flat.  If flat, re- cover with the tissue that is on the way.  If bowed, then plan C, rebuild the stab. 
  Some people use a kettle to produce steam.  You hold the covered warped stab over the steam coming out and steam the warps out, then pin down the structure to dry.  Problem with steaming is trying not to steam your fingers. 
  Here's something I do with all my stabs.  Once it is built and dope is completely dry, I get something flat and rigid, and cut out to just a little larger than the stab dimensions.  Then take something with a little give, like thin sheet foam or possibly flexible cardboard of the same size as your base and put the stab between the two.  Put three or four rubber bands around the whole thing.  The bands don't have to be tight, just snug enough to keep enough pressure to keep everything flat.  You should never have a warp from air moisture storing your stab that way.  Caley
 
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« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2011, 01:44:13 AM »

If all else fails, pour boiling water over both sides of the doped stab.   Stab will go floppy   .. pin it down on spacers and let it dry 24 hours
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« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2011, 05:40:45 PM »

Thanks everyone.  I ended up taking the tissue off the stab, and letting it dry for a couple days, held to the board.  That got rid of 80 percent of the twist, leaving a mild twist.  I recovered it, and after spritzing it with a 50/50 rubbing alcohol/water mix, used magnets to hold it down to the board to dry, with magnets underneath for air circulation.  It was perfectly flat, and after a coat of dope, also with it held flat until it dried, it seems to be OK again.  I guess those flat plate surfaces aren't too stable.  And with this one already looking for another opportunity to twist again, this one probably doesn't have a long future.

I installed a DT fuse in the tail, just like the Square Eagle has.  Was about all set to get it flying again, when, winding up a new motor from rubber Caley sent me, I wound it too far, and it burst, which tore up the fuse tissue, but didn't break any wood apparently.  I remember Caley metioning about not winding it up over half the max, if you aren't stretching the rubber when you wind it (I'm just using my finger until the winder arrives).  And since I hadn't lubed it yet, it didn't quite make 50 percent winds!  Well, nothing that can't be fixed without too much trouble.  So I learned something...lube the motor.

One issue I have now, with building the Square Eagle, is that one of the wing panels warped a bit, when shrinking the tissue.  I spritzed all of the tissue at the same time, while only being able to stabilize the center section on the building board.  I'm wondering if I should have shrunk the tissue in sections, only shrinking the section that could be held flat on the board until dry?  I used magnets to hold the warped section down while putting a coat of 50/50 dope on it, and that removed maybe half of the warp - the TE tilts down more than it should, on the left side wing panel, looking from a pilot's perspective.  Could that be corrected by removing the tissue, then re-covering, since the twist is probably all caused by the shrunk tissue?  It was fine before shrinking the tissue.  I'm about 90 percent done with the Square Eagle, and I have a winder on order.  I really like the Square Eagle, but I have made a couple mistakes on that one, too.  I'm guessing I shouldn't try to fly the thing with a warped wing panel...is it ruined, or like the stab, can I remove the tissue, and redo it?

I won't have anything ready now for the Eastern Championships, but may get out there just to see the excitement.

Victor
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« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2011, 07:06:50 PM »

Victor, Sorry to hear you having so much trouble with warping. 
  When you shrink the tissue on a wing, stab or fin, you should always have a hold down jig ready.  What I mean by that is you should place the covered bones on your building board, and set up your magnets around the perimeter so that once you spritz with water or isopropol alchohol, you can immediately put it on that magnet platform and then place magnets atop to sandwich it in place.  I usually put a magnet every couple of inches around the perimeter to make sure no kind of bow can get into the works.  I learned to do that after my experience on a current build.
  If you are putting washout on each wing tip, then you need to add shims along the TE.  Example: if you are going to have a 1/8 inch washout in each wingtip, then the inboard magnet will not have a shim, the next will have 1/32, and the next 1/16, the next 3/32, and finally the tip will have a 1/8 shim.  This has worked fine for me, and keeps the TE straight and supported without any bowing.  Currently I am trying to remove the problems in that goofed TE I mentioned.  I poured boiling water over the wing and then immediately placed it in the jig, and will leave it there for a week,  I am hoping that will cure things, or I will be doing what you did with your stab, and stripping off the tissue and doing a re-covering job,
  As for your stab, remember I mentioned a storage jig made of something thick and hard.  YOu probably could bet by for now with thick corregated cardboard for the bottom part of the jig and then add a thinner piece of flexible cardboard on top.  Then just use three or four rubber bands to hold things together.  The rubber bands don't have to be very tight, just snug.  Your stab will not warp.
  As for not taking anything to the event, if you do have your ON28 done, take that, and do some more tests, getting some help from those there.  They probably will let you use a blast tube, winder and winding stooge too.  Bet your ON28 will be flying well before you leave.  So try to get it done if you can.  All the fuse needs is stripping off those panels that got damaged, put new ones on, and a couple quick coats of dope.  It can be done in a few hours.  I know, I've done it.
  But, if you cannot get it ready, then do go and watch and ask questions, especially on how to properly lube a motor and wind it up.  But most importantly, have fun.  Caley
  PS  That rubber I sent you is some of the best rubber I have ever used,  Be aware that though many batches of rubber will take 1100 turns, this stuff maybe will take 1000, and provide much more torque ooompfh than the old rubber did.  I would say that the most you should put on a hand wound motor right now for your P-30 is 400 to be safe.

PPS  As for a blast tube, what I did is roll a piece of paper and then scotch tape that, then put a layer of plastic over the rolled paper, and finally duct taped the outside.  It won't last for years, but it should protect you from another motor blowout.
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
craig h
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« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2011, 07:27:24 PM »

Check with your local fish pet shop and acquire some of their hard plastic tubing that is used on the pumps to filter and add oxygen to the tank. It's a clear plastic tube that comes in different size diameters. You will have to cut slots to fit over you rear peg in such a way that it will lock on to the peg when twisted. I am sure someone would have a diagram showing how it's done.
 Just something you may wish to check out! Oops..this is meant for a blast tube!
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Victor
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« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2011, 09:15:36 PM »

Thanks Caley for the contest rubber; I've made up another 6 strand of 1/8, and had already made up a new prop shaft, with a loop in the end, for use with a winder (at least what I think will work with a winder).  For tomorrow, I decided to just patch it all up...not really sure what constitutes proper patching technique, I just cut squares of tissue and painted them on with the 50/50 dope.  Needed about 10 patches, and left a panel open.   It doesn't look pretty, but it will stop tissue from flapping in the breeze, until I do a proper re-cover.

I think maybe the Square Eagle wing will need to be redone - I realize I used 1/16" square for the wing spars, when I was supposed to use one 1/16 square, and the main spar a 1/16 x 1/8.  So it is flimsy on the outboard panels... I did the center panel right.  I noticed on the Majestyk plan that both wing spars are 1/16 x 1/8, so I suspect that it is useless to try to make it work with the undersize spars.  I think I'll need to make a new wing for the Square Eagle.

I've included a picture of the patched up ON28 fuse, as well as what I was trying to do with covering the Square Eagle.  I like the SE, with the ribbed stab, the doubled ribs for the dihedrals, the easy to build fuselage which seems pretty sturdy, and the fact that it comes with a DT setup and all the components.

The ON28 is looking pretty battle scarred already, but we'll see what the weekend brings.  Today was quite gusty, we'll see.

Victor
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Re: Couple questions on my first build of a ON 28
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Victor
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« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2011, 09:30:50 PM »

Thanks Craig for the tip on the blast tube; there is a Pet Smart right down the street, so it should be easy to get that.  When the winder arrives, and I build a stooge, then I can figure out the blast tube thing.

Caley, between that extra Esaki tissue you sent, and my extra ON28 kit ( I've only used up sticks for two stabs) I think I have enough material to make a second ON28 wing, which I'll bet would work fine on the Square Eagle, they seem to be similar in design; I know they weigh about the same.  Thanks for the tip on building in washout; I think the Majestyk plan calls for that.  The Square Eagle says it builds it in by skewing slightly the flat bottom wing panels when they are connected at the dihedrals.

Victor
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« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2011, 05:26:06 PM »

So I patched the fuse, and went out to the Eastern Free Flight meet this morning.  Quite windy, the forecast was 10-20 mph winds, at times it seemd like steady 15mph.  A friendly guy there loaned me a winder to use for the day.  I flew a couple times, only about 500 winds the first time, and 550 the next.  Really wasn't the right time for experimenting and trimming, and, not sure if the DT would work, I didn't want to lose it off the bat.  A two minute flight gave you a half mile walk down the field, it seemed.  I didn't time my flights, but they were probably around 45 seconds or so.  One guy had a Half aWake, and it caught a thermal and I lost sight of it when it was way up high and downwind.  But someone with binocs was able to keep an eye on it and he retrieved it, I thought it looked gone.

One plane was launched into the wind, and it kept the nose into the wind, but was going backwards for probably about 20 feet or so, until it turned and zipped downwind.   On retrieval from my second flight, I didn't notice the stab was getting beat into the fuse from the wind as I walked back, so it got a few holes in it, so that ended today's excitement.  But it seemed to fly OK for those two flights - didn't stall, didn't crash, and generally flew circular while drifting fast downwind.  The DT fuse seemed to work, although with the fuse set at a minute and a half, it tripped while on the ground.

Once things are very calm around here again, I'll go back to some trimming flights. 

Working on covering the Square Eagle fuse now.  I think this ends the ON28 thread; I have a functioning plane, and one that I can continue to learn with and experiment.  I'll get the SE going, and at some stage, start the Majestyk when I think I have a shot at doing it justice, and coming in at weight.

Victor
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crashcaley
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« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2011, 06:14:38 PM »

Victor, Great to hear you got out and flew with others, even if the wind was cranky to everyone.  Sounds like you've got a good idea on how to train your flying critters now.
  Look forward to hearing about your other endeavours.  Caley
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What's stall speed?  Undecided
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