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Author Topic: Power models.  (Read 16556 times)
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glidermaster
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« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2009, 02:56:35 PM »

Timer care, yes, I think Doug Galbreath wrote some decent tips on timer care - mostly aimed at Seeligs, but equally valid for KSB/Tatone.
Very basically;

Remove from the model, expose the clockwork mechanism (i.e. remove the dust cover) and run it right down.
Clean with automotive break cleaner (best to suspend it on a wire and not risk hitting your hands/fingers with the cleaner).
Let it dry completely.
Oil only the bearing pins with clock oil - do not use '3 in 1' - use very little oil.
Put a little oil in the coils of the spring.
Do not oil the gear teeth.

I've known one or two people have bearings jewelled by watchmakers if a bearing got elongated/worn, which seemed to make a very sweet running timer (KSB type).

John
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gossie
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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2009, 05:43:30 PM »

Can remember reading that Doug Galbreath article years, and one of the no no's was not to use WD40 or similar. It sure does make 'em run faster though.

I have used silicone spray on mine as well as Whale oil from a jeweler following Doug's article without too many problems.

Dirt and dust is the main 'killer' of them that can stop them with dire results in big lift. Shocked
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DerekMc
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2009, 06:21:57 PM »

Timer care, yes, I think Doug Galbreath wrote some decent tips on timer care - mostly aimed at Seeligs, but equally valid for KSB/Tatone.
Very basically;

John

Go here for what The F!B guru Andruikov has to say about cleaning clockwork timers.

http://home.pacbell.net/andriuko/TimerCleaning.htm
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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2009, 06:27:59 PM »

Canadian F1C flyer Dave Sugden gave me some "special" oil many years ago for timer use (I don't have it any more unfortunately :'(). It was good for timers because it did not change viscosity very much with changes in temperature. Not sure if it was clock oil though.

The oil I'm using now was a special order from a watch repair shop. I told them what I wanted it for, and they got me some that was made in France. It was very expensive, but the small bottle looks barely touched even after 15 years! I'm sure it is much more than a lifetime supply! It also has a stable viscosity with temperature.

Tony
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glidermaster
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« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2009, 08:01:46 PM »

I read the Andrukov hints, and was a bit baffled by the phrase;
'You may apply a few drops of CA glue on the timer posts to hold the timer together while inserting it into the pylon'

This is probably some simple operation that doesn't translate very well into English, but holding a timer together with CA doesn't sound very sensible.

Any thoughts, anyone?
John
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skycafe
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« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 08:16:28 PM »

as well as Whale oil from a jeweler

Mercy sakes, I am sure hoping that now 'days we can kill some soy beans or such and not have to bump off whales to get the correct sort of lubricant. Shocked

robert
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gossie
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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 08:39:24 PM »

as well as Whale oil from a jeweler

Mercy sakes, I am sure hoping that now 'days we can kill some soy beans or such and not have to bump off whales to get the correct sort of lubricant. Shocked

robert

FWIW I purchased that Whale oil from a local jeweler in Melbourne in 1973 when I first built a Rossi15 F1C with a Seelig timer in it......That's what everyone seemed to use way back then as well as the jewelers because so it seems the viscosity changes very little regardless of temperature.

I fully agree on not killing whales for any reason. We have them going past our place every year.... they will start going north in a few weeks then back to Antarctica later in the year.
We often see them close up as well as Dolphins whilst out in the ocean on our Jetski's.... magnificent creatures indeed.
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Tmat
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 11:41:18 PM »

The F1B timers that Andruikov is talking about have the outer support posts held to the main plates with small metric screws. Normally, the face plate is held onto the front main plate using the same screws that hold the timer together. Alex eschews the face plate and uses the carbon side wall of his pylon as a de-facto face plate. Thus, when installing the timer it is vulnerable because the outer brass main plate is not screwed to the support posts until the timer is mounted.
A tiny drop of CA on the ends of the posts is probably a good idea.

The support posts are not near any gears btw.

I understood what he meant, but then again, I'm an F1B guy with intimate knowledge of those timers! Grin Wink

Tony
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Ployd
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« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2009, 08:52:23 AM »

One of the best cleaners/ lubricators we have in OZ is a light natural oil refined from Lanolin (byproduct of sheeps wool) and is marketed under the name "Inox". Better than whale oil, cheaper, environmentally friendly, leaves a fine surface film for corrosion resistance and has a bit of PTFE in the mix. Seeligs and KSB run very smoothly after application without speeding up. I'm sold and was put onto it by an F1B flier (not Tmat)

Ployd in OZ
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glidermaster
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« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2009, 12:39:02 PM »

Tmat,

Your explanation of the Andrukov timer philosophy makes perfect sense now - as does doing away with the faceplate if mounting in a carbon pylon.

Normally, I hate the thought of putting glue anywhere near a timer - it's asking for trouble.

John
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glidermaster
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2009, 07:42:37 PM »

I put up pictures of Night Train before, but this time it's finished.
The tank is very ugly - but so far trust worthy.
John
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gossie
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2009, 09:10:58 PM »

That's a very pretty model 'JB'. Is the French man still about?
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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2009, 11:03:12 PM »

George was still around at least a couple years ago, flying some RC as far as I remember.

He once d/t'd a Night Train neatly into an empty rail car passing by ...
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gossie
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2009, 11:58:05 PM »

Oh dear me. Did he ever get it back?

While we are 'on a roll' here, this one is an Australian design from 1950.
HYPHEN by Bill Evans @ 80in span.
I built this one in 1979 and it has a Dooling29 to power it.
It won plenty for the first 20 years of it's life in various parts of Australia, but has not flown for 10 years now...... But Dooling kept oiled and turned over.

I had a good offer for it, so got it out for a pic or two before it goes to a new home.
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glidermaster
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2009, 11:21:50 PM »

To continue the occasional progress reports with my Vintage FAI models, last weekend I got out and made some noise. As some of you know I have made appeals for Super Tigre G15 bits, and have now gathered enough parts to enable me put together another 2 engines. These were what I put on the test bench.

The first engine positively sparkled performance-wise; it started readily, needled in nicely, and was turning over 21k on a standard Master 7x4 prop. The 2nd wasn't quite so satisfying. It was hard to start, was definitely slower than the first, and sagged pretty badly when the glow leads were taken off. A hotter plug made little difference. Now this was with a standard Super Tigre head, and Taylor plug, which I changed to an OS LC3. I kind of knew the head was to blame, and when I pulled it off, I noted it was quite loose in the bore, and judging by the brown marks up the side of it, had been loose in whatever engine it had run in before. Anyway, I put it in the lathe and turned the head into a clamp ring, which now holds a completely different 'trumpet' style head into the cylinder. See picture, which shows and standard head and the new 2-part head now in the engine.
I've also included a picture of 2 con-rods - standard on the left, and a Stu Sherlock rod on the right - as you can see, there's quite a difference. The standard rod, incidentally is cracked across the big end. I tried to take a picture of it, but my camera isn't good enough. If you want to use a tuned up G15, you really do need a stronger con-rod.

I'm confident it will now be a different engine.

John
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« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2009, 04:26:52 AM »

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.
21, I guess is pretty good, but it does make one understand how when Rossi Normale 15 arrived they dominated until only a few years ago.

Never knew 'Joe Supercool' did rods. We were in the F1C team together in '82 to NZ when he lived in Sydney. Have had some F1C carbon props off him that work well on my old Rossi's.
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glidermaster
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« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2009, 02:26:22 PM »

In September this year it will be 15 years since I flew an FAI model. I've no doubt I will find the Vintage FAI models a bit tame after a while, but for the time being the G15s do seem a bit less intimidating than my Rossi's or Cossi's - and that's OK!

That said, I have been working on putting one of my mid 80's (Rossi) models back in the air.

John
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2009, 09:00:34 AM »

Was over at a friends house a couple of days ago gazing at all the plans he has collected over the years and one he pulled out was the Night Train Mk VII. He's an RC guy that's trying to convert me, and of course I'm a free flight guy trying to convert him, so we both poured over this plan for awhile as the attraction to it grew for both of us. As it turns out he's even got a Super Tigre G 15. Not sure if he's actually going to build it, but the talk has progressed to how cool it would look freaking out all the heli pilots at the field. The amount of thought that went into this plan by Mr French truly staggered me, and the thought of trimming all those VIT bits to get them just right looks a nightmare to this amateur. Thanks for posting the pics guys.

Doug
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« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2009, 01:59:09 PM »

Just a quick note to say that I just got back from the barren wilderness part of heaven called Lost Hills. I had a wonderful time despite changeable weather, and Night Train flew!

It's starting to look good on its un-piped G15 turning standard a 7x4 Master prop. Lots more to come.

Thanks for the kind words Doug. I have to say Night Train is not a difficult model to build. You will find, after your many excellent builds of scale models, that handling the big timber sizes of a model like Night Train seems easy. The VIT on the plan is not the easiest, but there are plenty of variations that are much easier to make and do the same thing.
However, if you want to try f/f power, FAI is not the place to start. Night Trains smaller cousin, '1/2A Train' might be better - no VIT, same pretty shape!

John
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« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2009, 11:29:29 AM »

Another look at Night Train - this time in the desert sun at Lost Hills on 24-May.
Many thanks to Dave Rounsaville for the photo.

I hope you guys don't mind, but a few personal moments from my 'pilgrimage' to Lost Hills.

A huge part of the contest scene are the friendships you make along the way. I first met Dave in France in 1975; he had been on the US F1C team in Bulgaria, and took in the Pierre Trebod contest before heading home. I was a teenager then, and doubt very much that he remembered me, but we got on famously at Lost Hills; it turns out we have so many friends in common. We sat chatting in Denny's restaurant until Terri, his wonderful partner, was almost asleep in the booth!

Chatting with Walt Ghio and a few others for a while just after I arrived, Walt handed me a fuselage from a mid 60’s FAI power model. It was one of Bob Cherney’s ‘Orbiteer’ FAI designs, and holding the fuselage was quite a thrill for me, as I remember reading about Bob setting an AMA national record in a 1964 Aeromodeller. In the article there was a 3-view of the model, and a picture of Bob launching, and he instantly became one of my heroes. I had hitherto harboured the hope that I might meet him at Lost Hills some time. Sadly Walt told me that Bob died of a heart attack about a year or so ago, so holding that fuselage was as close as I would come.

I think I might be rifling through the wood box this weekend, and putting a new blade in the scalpel!
John
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gossie
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« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2009, 07:41:10 PM »

Nice story JB. As you say the friendships from this hobby/interest last for a long time.
I did get to meet Dave R at the '77 WC, but I'm sure he would not remember me as I was was only a teenager too. LOL.
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« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2009, 10:37:57 PM »

I opened up one of my other boxes of power models and plucked a couple out for some routine maintenance. It's been a while since these were flown.

First up is an own-design I called Qwiky. It was originally a 1/2A size Slow Open Power model (UK rules - fixed surfaces, suction feed). I rebuilt the front end of the fuselage a while back, and now it has pressure feed/flood-off. There's quite a bit of interest in the Slow Open type concept in North America - however, there's no interest in suction feed, hence the conversion. Despite the red intake moulding on the engine, this is a Tee Dee 049.
44x5.5" wing, weighs a hair over 6 oz.

John
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« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2009, 10:48:14 PM »

Next is another own-design, another Slow Open Model, this one I called Semislo, and has an OS 15FP for power, an engine I would heartily recommend to anyone wanting to have a go at contest power.
This model has a wing measuring 55"x6.5", and a total weight of just over 15 oz. It was built for the 2002 UK Nationals - I treated myself to a trip having missed out on going to Lost Hills for the World Champs in October 2001.
If a Slow type contest ever gets going over here, I'll probably have to put another engine in it; all the talk so far indicates a 'No Schneurle Porting' rule is likely.

Both models have self-made timers with instant DT facility for trimming. Most useful out here where, despite the size of the country, the fields are a bit small.

John

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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2009, 06:56:12 PM »

My cousin Bill Simms in the UK sent me this picture taken at the Poitou contest in France in 1981. Roy Collins launching, Martin Dilly on the left, Ray Moore with typical hat in the centre background (holding model), and my No.2 F1C just visible on the lower right. A great shot by Bill, I think.

John
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gossie
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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2009, 10:44:43 PM »

A great shot indeed. And a very '70s/'80s looking power model.
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